Q&A: Stuart Coupe on the Gudinski biography

In the past 30 years, it hasn’t just been the political parties wanting to recruit Michael Gudinski’s profile and influence for their youth vote. Publishers have also been angling lucrative cheques, but the Mushroom founder turned them down with a curt “No!”. Long time journalist, broadcaster, manager, promoter and founder of Laughing Outlaw Records Stuart Coupe also got the same treatment. But he didn’t take no for an answer.

Q: Why the obsession with his story?

Stuart Coupe: “I first raised the idea of a book with Michael after The Promoters was published in 2003. He loved it and to date has bought about 170 copies to give to people. I told him that there should be a whole book documenting his career. But for reasons I’m still not sure about, he dismissed it every time I raised it. I felt really strongly that this was the great untold Australian rock’n’roll story – plus I find Michael a fascinating individual.

“Eventually my publisher Matthew Kelly and I decided that we’d just start work on it and see what happened. Michael heard of this decision in about 37 seconds and rang to say, “I don’t want a fucking book.” My response was “Sorry, you’re getting one.” I still don’t know exactly how he feels about the book. There are a number of chapters where my interpretation of events and his differ significantly.”

Q: The mythical concept of a Godfather, as you refer to him in the book title, is that he should be protected with a veil of secrecy by his entourage. Yet an extraordinary amount of his colleagues and ex- and current staff went on the record with you. What percentage of those you approached refused to cooperate?

Stuart Coupe: “Initially pretty much everyone I approached asked if the book was authorised. When I said no, they said they’d call Michael and see how he felt about them talking to me. Then there was silence. Eventually I contacted Michelle Higgins (a long-term Mushroom staffer now living in New York). She said, ‘I’m not calling him, this is too important a story, I’ll talk to you.’ At that point people like Amanda Pelman, Gary Ashley, Simon Young and so forth said they’d talk.

“Eventually Michael realised I wasn’t going away and gave his tacit blessing for me to approach people currently employed at the company. Most people were happy to talk, some much more candidly than I expected. Some made their feelings clear by not responding to emails or calls but there were only a handful of them – and only one artist directly said no as he’s saving his recollections for his own book.”

How much of copy control did you give him, if any? Some of the revelations on the power-plays, the tough negotiations, the disintegration of the relationship with his lieutenant Gary Ashley and the reported $11 million loss by Mushroom UK are not what too many business people would want put out there.

Stuart Coupe: “We came to an arrangement where he could read the manuscript for factual errors but not alter my interpretations. I was heartened by how few real factual errors he pinpointed – and the ones he wanted fixed. My favourite moment was when he called from Dubai airport on his way back from London two days before we went to the printers and said ‘Mate, the Jaguar I bought in 1973 – you say it was new . . . can you please correct it to say it was second-hand, it was years before I bought a new car.’ I think that maybe a lot of what you mentioned he’d prefer to be either not in there or approached from a different slant. But to his credit, when I reminded him that this was my take, he didn’t push too hard.”

Stuart Coupe at BigSound 2012

Q: Unlike most music companies in Australia, the Mushroom Group had a high amount of strong assertive creative women who were given prime decision-making positions in the organisation. How did that affect the culture within, and strike rate for, Mushroom?

Stuart Coupe: “I’m hoping this comes through as a significant theme in the book. Michael has a very long-standing reputation for empowering women – and a lot of them. There is no other record label – possibly not just in Australia but globally – that has given so many women so much power and decision making. Of course as Michael always reminds you, there is only one boss. But he listens carefully to their opinions. I struggle to think of another record label head who would have responded like he did when Michelle Higgins booked herself into the Sebel Town House (in Sydney) and told him she was staying there – on his dime – until he re-signed Paul Kelly!”

Q: Looking back, the likes of the late Festival boss Allan Hely, Skyhooks, Kylie and Rupert Murdoch came into Gudinski’s business life just at the right time when he financially needed them. To what extent was this sheer luck and coincidence?

Stuart Coupe: “I think Michael’s career has been – and I’d like to think he’d admit it – a wonderful confluence of luck, good timing and business smarts. Allan Hely is a not so-secret hero in this book as it was he who backed Michael in the early days – usually when those around him thought he was completely crazy. He was always there for Michael. Mind you, he was getting a pretty damn good deal for Festival at the same time.

“The initial 50% sale to Murdoch was a very good deal for Michael – the second sale was remarkable in that the venture between Mushroom and News was clearly bleeding very very badly. But from what I can gather, News/Murdoch went ahead and paid more for the second 50% than they did for the first. Go figure! Michael has had some very precarious times, and some very lucky ones – but you don’t survive and succeed to the level he has without a lot of extremely smart moves, good signings and an overall great business acumen.”

Q: When you look at major bands both here and abroad, the images of INXS, Led Zeppelin, the Stones, Dragon and Rose Tattoo seemed more a reflection of the personalities of their managers than necessarily of the band members. To what extent did the ‘Hooks’ bratty aggression come from Gudinski or was it definitely all from the band itself?

Stuart Coupe: “In the case of Skyhooks it was well and truly entrenched within the band members. They didn’t need – even in the very early days – any help from Gudinski to be ferociously single-minded, unpredictable, demanding, intensely focused and – as you put it – brattily aggressive.

“Having said that, when you threw Michael into the mix that just enhanced all of the qualities we’ve just mentioned. You put those two volatile forces – and that’s if you actually assume that Skyhooks were unified in the first place! – together in the craziness that was those years and you have a recipe for extreme volatility. Michael only enhanced what was already there – Skyhooks didn’t need any help!”

Q: The concept of the 360-degree entertainment company actually started out in the ‘70s with the likes of Gudinski and Chris Wright of Chrysalis in England. It’s always sat uncomfortable with some of the Australian music industry. Was there a glaring example in Michael’s case where there was a conflict of interest?

Stuart Coupe: “It’s inevitable that there’s been what people call conflicts of interest in Michael’s world – how can there not be when you have a record label, publishing company, promotions business, booking agency, merchandising companies . . . I could go on. Michael does what anyone in his position would do – and that’s use these situations to his advantage – and usually for his artists.

“That’s what I would do if I were in his situation. I’d heard all the jokes about him renegotiating Jimmy Barnes deals and I’d laughed like everyone else until I learnt more about the reality. Barnes was always armed with a very able lawyer and other business associates looking after his interests in any dealings with Michael. Michael and his company are very powerful – and anyone who feels neglected, discarded or off the team will be resentful. But if any of those naysayers were in Michael’s position they’d do exactly what he does – look after your own.”

Q: What do you regard as Michael Gudinski’s strongest and weakest personality traits?

Stuart Coupe: “Michael is incredibly charismatic, a brilliant negotiator, an astonishing motivator and ridiculously passionate about music in general – and music from this country in particular. Anyone who thinks any of those qualities are waning doesn’t know him.

“His weaknesses? Most people agree that he tries to do too much and his attention span – or lack therefore – is the stuff of legend. Sometimes I wish – and it comes through in the book – he’d be more acknowledging of the work of others. In terms of the book I found getting his attention very difficult. Eventually I just had to accept that 9 out of 10 meetings or conversations would be either cancelled or postponed. If I worked with or for him I’d find that very hard to cope with. And of course I have issues with his blind faith in (the) St Kilda (football team).”

* “Gudinski: The Godfather of Australian Rock’n’Roll” by Stuart Coupe is published today by Hachette Australia.