“It’s our duty to push the boundaries”: Four programming pros on diverse lineups

Whether it’slocal gigsor major festivals, it’s safe to say that a bill groaning with guitar-toting straight dudes doesn’t feelquite right any more – but it still happens, and when it does, people notice. In March, a booker at ANU’s Uni Bar was called outfor the all-male lineup of one of the venue’s final gigs; when he scoffed at commenters wondering at the lack offemale (and nonbinary) acts on the bill, headliners Regurgitator dropped out.

The same week, Sydney mini-festival Electric Lady was announced,proudly sportingan all-women bill including Jack River (aka event director Holly Rankin), Alex Lahey, Body Type and Ali Barter. The response was overwhelmingly positive, showing that there’s more appetite than ever for live music events that betterreflect themakeup of their audiences.

From events with a specific mission to support diverse lineups, like Sad Grrrls Club, to mainstream festivals quietly making an effort to ensure they don’t become a mortifying meme, it seems a tipping point has been reached, but there’s still a way to go.

Ahead of Electric Lady’s debut tonight at Sydney’s Metro Theatre (tickets are still available from Eventbrite), TMN asked four experienced live music programmers – Rankin, senior event producerKat Dopper, Secret Garden Festival booker Adam Lewis, and Travis Bankofrom Laneway Festival’s programming team – exactly why everyone “should think about this shit“, and what diverse representation on lineups means to them.

Kat Dopper: “There are no excuses as curators to overlook diverse talents”

Event Producer
Founder & Director, Heaps Gay

How important is thediversityof alineupto you as a booker (and as a music lover generally)?

I like to think Heaps Gay has been built on a foundation ofdiversityand inclusion, from the punters who attend to the artists we curate for each event. I know I have a limited perspective so I ask for help and feedback constantly to make sure that we are representing as many aspects of the community as possible.

Personally, I think it’s so important to make sure it’s not just about ticking a box but working closing with the artists to ensure it’s the right piece and act for a particular bill. I think larger scale festivals and events could benefit from more focus on collaboration and consultation like this.

How hard do you think it is to balance alineupartistically with having one that’s not dominated by straight white guys?

Honestly, I think it is easy! There are so many talented artists in Australia who do not identify as a straight white male. There are no excuses as curators to overlook the diverse talents we have on our doorstep!

Have you ever chosen not to work on something because you felt it was too blokey or unfriendly to women/femmes/another group, or because of the involvement of someone you knew had a history of perpetuating abuse, prejudice or bad behaviour?

I have, actually! I won’t mention it here but I specifically turned down an Executive Producer role of a very large-scale event where lineups and creatives were locked in. It was very much curated and targeted to the white male and went against everything I believed in.

Have you ever been part of an event that was called out for a lack ofdiversityon thelineup?

No. I’m happy to say that the clients I work with currently (FBi Radio, Red Bull Sound Select) are interested in supporting new talent regardless of their identity politics. I have been pretty lucky in my career, to be honest.

When I was at Junkee Media, I worked on The Electronic Music Conference at a time when dance music was a very male-dominated scene that could have gone pretty wrong but I think we worked hard to get a good percentage of women on the lineup.

What do you think could be done to make it easier for event programmers to put together more representativelineups, or to encourage people to make it a priority?

• Free platforms that raise awareness of artists really help to find talent e.g. FB groups – The Ladies Network, Woman in The Arts, Listen Conference etc.
• Consultation with the right community group to find talent.
• Bookersand creators should encourage contributions through callouts for new talent – e.g. We are always open and encourage musicians and artists to send us their works.

Adam Lewis: “Our audiences and industry wear a certain baggage”

Programmer, Secret Garden Festival
Entertainment Manager, Solotel Group

How important is the diversity of a lineup to you as a booker (and as a music lover generally)?

Very important – our music community is a really important part of Australia’s youth culture (and culture overall), and it’s important that it both represents the diversity of our communities, and elevates voices that have important stories to tell. For many decades, popular music has given disproportionate opportunity and gravitas to certain artists (generally straight, white men) at the expense of others, and it’s important that bookers are mindful of this.

Breaking this cycle helps to make our music events more welcoming and expressive in the short term. In the long term, I hope that it also empowers a more diverse range of people to create, engage, and find a community in the music scene.

How hard is it to balance having your ideal lineup artistically with having one that’s not dominated by straight white guys?

Artistically, it’s not hard, because the ideal lineup is diverse. A lineup dominated by straight white guys is not a particularly interesting lineup, so artistically it comes naturally. A more likely challenge in my experience is economic, i.e. events that require a certain level of commercial appeal.

The byproduct of a music scene that has traditionally encouraged and privileged straight white guys is that there’s a very disproportionate amount of them kicking around – so at times, with a lot of (more diverse and arguably more interesting) first and second preferences off the table, it’s easy to slip back into comfort zones and end up with a lineup that isn’t diverse or representative. I think that’s something we’ve managed fairly well, but it’s not something I’ve been immune to.

Have you ever made a call on booking one act over another when an identity or representation was the deciding factor? (e.g. Choosing a female DJ over a male when their fee, profile and style were similar)

I’m not sure about overtly, in a direct comparison – though I likely have at some point. But I’ve certainly looked at partial lineups, decided it was too skewed in a certain direction, and focused on bringing in other voices. I think that’s a pretty standard part of booking.

Have you ever been called out for booking an event that was too blokey, too white, or that was considered otherwise not representative?

I haven’t. In all honesty I actually think we need to do better and at times have been given too much credit. Secret Garden has a more diverse lineup than a lot of festivals, but it’s a low bar – and one that we’re working on.

What do you think could be done to make it easier for event programmers to put together diverse lineups, or to encourage people to make it a priority?

I think it’s a long game. There’s a lot of wonderful conversation and moves happening within a lot of the community, but when it comes to mainstream Australian festival culture, our audiences and industry wear a certain baggage that comes from years of disproportionate representation. Radio, television, events, and the broader music industry as a whole need to be complicit in breaking that cycle. Familiarity breeds demand, and right now a lot of audiences are still mostly familiar with white male guitar bands.

To challenge and shift audience expectations is all of our responsibility, and at times that will conflict with the most immediate commercial avenues. But I think music audiences are growing and starting to demand more representative events, and that bodes well for all involved moving forward.

Holly Rankin: “It’s our duty to push the boundaries”

Director, Grow Your Own & Electric Lady festivals
Artist (Jack River)

How important is the diversity of a lineup to you as a booker, as a performer, and as a music lover generally?

The festivals I love are usually curated around a feeling or a concept. I think the music should come first (after all it is a music event), and diversity should closely follow that. I look for diversity in all things – not just the music industry.

Changing the game re: diversity shouldn’t be a challenge, rather a normal part of how things are done.

How hard do you think it is to balance a lineup artistically with having one that’s not dominated by straight white guys?

We are all just people, and living in Australia, there probably does happen to be a large number of straight white guys – all probably really good humans too! As I said, the music should probably come first, but it’s so important to encourage multiple demographics into the game. It’s absolutely not hard at all to take a look at your lineup and make sure you are encouraging as many people to come along as possible, and adhering to the tastes of your audiences as much as possible, and also just doing your bit to challenge the status quo.

The history is there, ‘straight white males’ have been a big part of it, but I don’t think that current ‘straight white males’ should continually be singled out, I prefer to treat things progressively and just add more diversity to the mix instead of shooting down other demographics or artists.

Have you ever chosen not to play a show or festival because you felt it was too blokey or unfriendly to women/femmes, or because of the involvement of someone you knew had a bad track record when it came to women?

Nope, the majority of the festivals I have played have had many incredible women on the lineup. Like anyone doing business, everyday I run into people I would rather not be associated with, or work with, for some of these reasons, but again, I just get on with whatever I am doing and gravitate toward positive people.

Though, here I must say that Grow Your Own, my company’s first festival, did have an all male lineup, which was largely overlooked at the time. Our concept was to have a lineup full of local bands actively pursuing music professionally and one headliner (Dope Lemon). I am literally the only girl from my area who was pursuing music at the time. We approached Kita Alexander (Port Macquarie) but she was pregnant at the time with her incredible son! Before we knew it we had locked in an all male lineup plus Jack River, which I felt pretty stupid about, but this year it’ll be different.

There was a small amount of chatter on the day of Electric Lady’s announcement – amongst a lot of really positive buzz – about how while the overall idea was a great move, it would have been even better to include some non-white or gender non-conforming performers. Do you feel that’s a fair call?

It took the team and I many months to put together the lineup, we asked multiple non-white performers to play, but it didn’t work with their schedules. Garnering an all female lineup with some of the best artists in the country was our mission and our focus. We did what we could to launch something magic and I would prefer, again, to focus on positives and do as much as I can. Electric Lady is only at the beginning, we have many years and many lineups ahead of us!

Electric Lady also received some [negative] comments about it being all female. This is our concept and it reflects a real movement and exciting moment to me, the night is simply capturing and appreciating that, and encouraging more young women to pursue music. This was our focus, I am fine with the fact that it can’t please everyone.

What do you think could be done to make it easier for event programmers to put together more representative lineups, or to encourage people to make it a priority?

Keep talking about it, writing about it, supporting it, but most of all, doing it. We are living in a time where so much is changing for the better, but I feel like we are literally in the zeitgeist of it – and it’s our duty to push the boundaries with what is publicly talked about, even if it’s not so mysterious and cool.

Travis Banko: “One would hope it’d come naturally”

Programmer, Laneway Festival

How important is the diversity of a lineup to you as a booker (and as a music lover generally)?

VERY important on both fronts. From Laneway’s standpoint we’ve always prided ourselves on having a diverse range of artists from all backgrounds, genres and genders –you only need to check our history to see that, and everyone should expect to see us continue doing so.

As a music lover, the main reason for attending a festival is generally for its rich and diverse lineup so I always love seeing a nice balance of all things mentioned above.

How hard is it to balance having your ideal lineup artistically with having one that’s not dominated by straight white guys?

I feel very lucky that in the space Laneway operates there is never a shortage of amazing gender diverse acts. In saying that, it really can be a tough thing to do and I feel for those who have made a genuine effort to try to get it done and for whatever reason (be it budget, availability, etc) haven’t been able to and then get crucified for it.

Have you ever made a call on booking one act over another whenan identity or representation was the deciding factor? (e.g. Choosing a female DJ over a manwhen their fee, profile and style were similar)

As mentioned in the previous answer, every year there is always such an amazing crop of gender diverse acts emerging from the deep dark depths of the internet so we haven’t really needed to make that kind of call. But we wouldn’t have a problem doing so if it boiled down to it.

Have you ever been called out for booking an event that was too dude-y, too white, or that was considered otherwise not representative?

NO!

Do you keep notes or records on how representative your lineups are?

We are aware of it for sure.

What do you think could be done to make it easier for event programmers to put together diverse lineups, or to encourage people to make it a priority?

As a booker it’s absolutely something you should be thinking about – one would hope it’d come naturally as a booker, or would evolve throughout the booking process but sometimes it doesn’t. It’s an educational thing, realising that punters want to see more diverse lineups and that these acts are worth tickets in their own right so should be given a shot where it makes sense.