Hot Seat: Making It In The Music Industry… with Steve Lillywhite, Producer
TMNhas revived Hot Seat to offer our young industry subscribers an insight into what it takes to make it in the music business.
Six-time Grammy winning producerSteve Lillywhite (CBE) was in the country last week to take part in global song writing initiative,SongHubs. The British mastermind behind seminal albums released by U2,The Rolling Stones and 30 Seconds To Mars among others, was put to work in a series of production sessions with a number of Australian and New Zealand artists includingMegan Washington,Reece Mastin,Thomston andJP Fung.
TMN spoke to Lillywhite about the importance of honesty when it comes to a song’s influences, which track on Achtung Baby still makes him twitch, and why it was fear that drew him to a career as a producer.
You’ve just come from the Bali International Songwriting Camp where you were working with M-Phazes Have you got a hit on your hands?
If I knew, if anyone knew… this is the great thing about music. You can put the best people in the best studio with the best everything and come out with a piece of shit. That’s what I love about it.
There’s a formula for sure and more and more the magic is being removed but there is still magic. There are still people like Lorde and Gotye who can come through with such amaxzing stuff that is not in the formula. And that’s why I’m still doing it.
What drew you to a career in producing?
Fear. Fear that I would be flipping burgers if I wasn’t successful. And then once I was successful, fear that I would lose it. It is like a catch 22 situation; it was very easy for me to understand you know, how do you get the hit without the work, and how do you get the work without the hit?
All of a sudden in 1977 I got the hit (Siouxsie and the Banshees with first song Hong KongGarden) just purely because of punk rock in the UK. I suddenly thought as long as I keep doing what I’ve done and as long as I keep having occasional hits, this is a great career for me.
Every time I’ve had success with one artist I’ve always tried to expand my [growth] by never working with a similar artist. I used success to work on something else rather than to work on a similar thing […] So many narrow minded record company people wanted me to produce their band because it sounded like U2 and I’ve never done that. I want to work with great artists, and if a band sounds like a band that’s successful, then by definition they’re not a great artist because they’re not the first ones to do it.
Do you have any advice for the new crop of talent entering the production realm?
Try and do something different. Try not to base your song around someone else’s song. Try and be yourself.
Sometimes the best sound for every instrument is not the right sound for every instrument. Sometimes you don’t need a good sound on something, you need the correct sound.
Try and think outside the box. If you are influenced by someone else in your songwriting be honest; listen to your song next to the song that you love and think ‘is mine good enough?’ I think a lot of people aren’t honest enough to themselves. If you want to aspire to greatness, you just have to chop it down and start again.
If you do have a great song people will like it […] And don’t think in terms of the sound, think in terms of the feeling it gives you. It’s the X factor still that I believe in that makes it a great artistic statement.
Don’t work in a vacuum. The things that made the great bands great were that they were bands. I think nowadays one man on a computer is not a band. Work with your friends, don’t work in a bubble.
What do you think of the records coming out of Australia of late in terms of originality?
It’s like Australia hasn’t quite gone as far toward the formula and the safeness that America and the UK have gone.
I met some very good Australian artists [in Bali] who are a little bit out of the ordinary […] By doing that you get the possibility of something great coming out, like Gotye and Lorde, although I know Lorde isn’t Australian.
I watched 30 Seconds To Mars’ documentary Artifact surrounding their label deal and This Is War. It almost seemed like the producer takes on the role of counsellor a little bit during recording. Does that just come with the territory?
Yes that’s part of our job. When I worked with the Rolling Stones I actually felt like I was [US diplomat] Henry Kissinger because Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were so against each other that it was like I was John Kerry in the Middle East.
Your personality is good for that, my personality suits my job. I’m very lucky that people trust me and that they can talk to me. Jared Leto did say to me just on the last album, I worked on Love Lust Faith and Dreams, he said ‘Steve you’re the only man over 50 whose opinion I would trust.’
You’ve been dabbling in the label sector for a while now (Universal in London, Sony in the US), what’s your view on how the major label system is currently going?
Have I mentioned Enron? It was the oil companies who were ripping everyone off.
You know, you need record companies, but more, record companies need you. As long as that is the relationship that we have with them, that they need us more than we need them, I think it’s healthy. Sometimes it’s not like that. I know a lot of record labels would rather run their company without artists. Any company wants to minimise any risk. Let’s say your biggest money-seller is a dug addict for instance, it’s a bit worrying – much better that’s it a can of baked beans or a tube of toothpaste. I don’t see it as a product and I’ve always seen what I do as art. My belief is the greater the quality of the art, the greater the quality it has.
If you could go back, what would you say to 1990 Steve Lillywhite, who was co-producing Achtung Baby with Brian Eno?
I would say let’s not have Who’s Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses on the album because that song does my head in. Still to this day I twitch if ever I hear it. I’ve net people who say ‘I love that song’ but for me it was never quite unlocked, let’s put it that way.